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| | US Mint / liberty dollar /attaque contre la vraie monnaie |  |
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Skipper
Inscription : 05/02/2005
Messages : 20140
 | | | Re: US Mint / liberty dollar /attaque contre la vraie monnaie
par g.sandro Lun 21 Mar 2011 - 1:48 | |
| - Citation :
Who's really undermining the currency, economic stability, and democracy?
Submitted by cpowell on 02:17PM ET Saturday, March 19, 2011. Section:
Daily Dispatches
5:33p ET Saturday, March 19, 2011
Dear Friend of
GATA and Gold (and Silver):
Here's hoping that yesterday's conviction of
Liberty Dollar founder Bernard von NotHaus in federal court in North Carolina
won't discourage the advocates of free markets in gold and silver and
competitive currencies.
Those objectives were advanced by Liberty
Dollar's seeking to put precious metal back into the hands of the people and
back into circulation as currency. But the details of von NotHaus' conviction,
as cited in the statement issued by the U.S. attorney for the Western District
of North Carolina, Anne Tompkins, suggest that Liberty Dollar pursued those
objectives in the wrong way -- a way the government was able to construe as more
or less counterfeiting.
That is, Liberty Dollar's coins "were marked with
the dollar sign, the words 'dollar,' 'USA,' 'Liberty,' 'Trust in God' (instead
of 'In God We Trust'), and other features associated with legitimate U.S.
coinage."
Of course the suggestion of counterfeiting was always a little
silly, insofar as Liberty Dollar's coins were precious metal and
general-circulation U.S. currency coins have all been base metal since 1965. How
can a supposed counterfeit be worth more than a legitimate original? It's
doubtful that any user of a Liberty Dollar coin was ever really confused about
the difference.
... Dispatch continues below
...
But
Liberty Dollar also was part of an organization that aimed to repeal the Federal
Reserve System and thus was more easily construed as subversion. Certainly the
Liberty Dollar operation was politically subversive, and the government seems to
have gone nearly berserk about it precisely because of its
politics.
"Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country
are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism," U.S. Attorney Tompkins said.
"While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they
are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the
economic stability of this country. ... We are determined to meet these threats
through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to
challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of
government."
Undermining the legitimate currency of this country?
Representing a clear and present danger to the country's economic stability?
Does the U.S. attorney mean undermining the currency that has lost
something like 98 percent of its value since the enactment in 1913 of the
Federal Reserve System about which the Liberty Dollar operation complained? Does
the U.S. attorney mean a danger to the economic stability of the country that
has been using that ever-devaluing currency, the country that has experienced
only booms and busts and even a couple of depressions under the reign of the
Federal Reserve? And by "democratic form of government," does the U.S. attorney
mean the Federal Reserve System that, in secret, rigs markets and bestows
virtually infinite patronage on the large banking houses that have been looting
the country?
If undermining that currency and the economic stability of
the country that uses it is really a crime, and if damaging democracy is really
a crime, why haven't a few Fed chairmen been prosecuted?
As for the
nececessity for the government to infiltrate organizations that might challenge
the currency system, the Liberty Dollar enterprise functioned entirely in the
open. It operated an Internet site and distributed press releases. Unlike the
government, it wasn't in the business of keeping secrets. It seems to have been
quite candid about what it was doing.
Nevertheless, Liberty Dollar
probably was mistaken, legally and tactically, in its minting format, its using
devices that could liken its coins to government coins. If the Liberty Dollar
coins didn't use those devices, if Liberty Dollar had distinguished its coins by
weight of metal rather than any dollar value and had imprinted on them some
legend explicitly distinguishing them from government coins, the case might have
ended differently -- or well might not have been prosecuted at all.
In
any event the Liberty Dollar case was more a political case than a case of
counterfeiting, fraud, or deceit. Indeed, the country probably has gained more
from it -- gained some understanding of the currency system -- than the country
has lost from the circulation of some precious metal coinage. U.S. District
Court Judge Richard Voorhees should take this into account when sentencing von
NotHaus.
Today's story in the Asheville Citizen-Times about the
conviction of von NotHaus is appended. And some sardonic commentary about his
conviction can be found at Zero Hedge here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fbi-busts-mastermind-criminal-issuing-silver-currency-demanding-repeal-fed-and-irs-faces-15-
CHRIS
POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.
 Silver is king, Go Gold !
 G.Sandro pas de copier collé: merci de faire un lien vers ce post. Suivez Hardinvestor sur Twitter et sur Facebook |
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Captain
Inscription : 04/02/2005
Messages : 14465
| | | Re: US Mint / liberty dollar /attaque contre la vraie monnaie
par g.sandro Lun 21 Mar 2011 - 2:14 | |
| Dear Friend of GATA and Gold (and Silver): The New York Sun today editorializes brilliantly about the ironies in the conviction of Liberty Dollar founder Bernard von NotHaus. The editorial begins: "Here is a thought experiment concerning two men who have issued money. One issued gold and silver coins that will today bring more in dollars than he charged for them. The other issued paper notes that are today worth but a fraction the gold or silver they were worth at the time they were issued. One man is facing the possibility of years in prison after a federal jury found his issuing of money to have been a crime. The other man is walking around free and being treated by the authorities with great deference. Which is which?" The editorial, most likely written by Sun editor Seth Lipsky, is headlined "A 'Unique' Form of Terrorism" and can be found here: http://www.nysun.com/editorials/a-unique-form-of-terrorism/87269/CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc. Silver is king, Go Gold !
G.Sandro pas de copier collé: merci de faire un lien vers ce post. Suivez Hardinvestor sur Twitter et sur Facebook |
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Captain
Inscription : 04/02/2005
Messages : 14465
| | | Re: US Mint / liberty dollar /attaque contre la vraie monnaie
par nofear Lun 21 Mar 2011 - 14:08 | |
| - Citation :
- c'est un coup à devenir Nofearien ça...
 Quand on regarde les faits et que l'on se pose les bonnes questions il n'y a pas d'autre issue  Nofear / Hardinvestor / On appelle esprit libre celui qui pense autrement qu'on ne s'y attend de sa part en raison de son origine, de son milieu, de son état et de sa fonction, ou en raison des opinions régnantes de son temps. Il est l'exception, les esprits asservis sont la règle. Ce que ceux-ci lui reprochent, c'est que ses libres principes, ou bien ont leur source dans le désir de surprendre ou bien permettent de conclure à des actes libres, c'est-à-dire de ceux qui sont inconciliables avec la morale asservie." (Friedrich NIETZSCHE, Humain, trop humain) mon tweet perso: @ghostbikerman |
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Chef cuistot
Inscription : 03/10/2009
Messages : 2398
| | | Re: US Mint / liberty dollar /attaque contre la vraie monnaie
par marie Mer 13 Avr 2011 - 23:38 | |
| l'affaire fait grand bruit en tout cas .. le procureur Anne Tompkins a t'elle violé les régles de déontologie? évidemment et si vous avez suivi l'affaire, la cour .. et le procureur ont fait mine de confondre contrefaçon et émission de monnaie privée..ce qui est un peu fort de café, en la circonstance .. se basant sur la constitution américaine Hors, il se trouve qu'il n'y a absolument rien dans la constitution américaine qui interdise la circulation de monnaies autre que le us$, comme le répéte très souvent et à juste titre Du-puel, notre Armand préféré  l'auteur revient en détail sur le coinage act de 1792 ...tout cela est fort intéressant .. http://www.howtovanish.com/2011/04/liberty-dollar-ii-prosecutor-anne-tompkins-made-false-statement-of-law/ Marie Pas de copier-coller: merci de faire un lien vers ce post. Suivez Hardinvestor sur Twitter et sur Facebook |
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Skipper
Inscription : 05/02/2005
Messages : 20140
| | | les services secrets US interdisent la vente des gold et silver liberty $ sur ebay
par marie Jeu 27 Déc 2012 - 19:03 | |
| les services secrets US interdisent la vente des gold et silver liberty dollars sur Ebay http://www.shtfplan.com/precious-metals/u-s-secret-service-bans-sale-of-silver-and-gold-liberty-dollars-on-ebay_12172012pour ceux qui préférent en français , traduction 24hg la conclusion de l'article est bien trop hative à mon goût, on agite à l'aide encore l'épouvantail de la confiscation de l'or physique, voir ce que j'en pense dans la file confiscation or
ceci étant dit, l'affaire liberty dollar est tout aussi scandaleuse qu'interessante . - Citation :
Ils s’attaquent au Liberty Dollar parce qu’il représente une ‘menace pour la stabilité économique’ des Etats-Unis. Il n’est pas difficile d’imaginer que le gouvernement puisse utiliser le même argument pour les autres moyens d’échanges et réserves de valeur, tout particulièrement ceux qui contiennent de l’or et de l’argent.
Il a confisqué l’or de ses citoyens dans les années 1930 pour les mêmes raisons. Il se pourrait qu’il recommence, mais cette fois-ci, s’il trouvait quelque chose chez vous, vous seriez également condamné pour terrorisme…
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merci à Jigé pour l'info  Marie Pas de copier-coller: merci de faire un lien vers ce post. Suivez Hardinvestor sur Twitter et sur Facebook |
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Skipper
Inscription : 05/02/2005
Messages : 20140
| | | Re: US Mint / liberty dollar /attaque contre la vraie monnaie
par du-puel Sam 29 Déc 2012 - 8:26 | |
| Il me semble que le "Liberty Dollar" a été condamné pour contre-façon du dollar-or ayant cours légal (Eagles et autres Buffalos), les initiateurs du Liberty Dollar le présentant comme tel.
II est alors logique et légitime que cette fausse monnaie (au sens d'une décision de justice) soit partout pourchassée. Il en serait de même si des faux billets de 100 USpesos étaient mis en vente sur ebay, même s'ils n'imitaient pas le motif de l'original : il suffirait que leur imprimeur prétende qu'ils aient cours légal.
La cour suprême fonde sa décision sur le fait que produire de la monnaie ayant cours légal est réservé à l'état (ou aux producteurs qu'il choisit, i.e. l'US Mint pour les pièces en or ou en argent, la FED pour le papier)
La cour suprême zunienne a déjà jugé que le dollar-or (légal) a cours (forcé) pour sa valeur faciale, celle qui est écrite dessus, et non pas pour le prix (bien supérieur) de la matière (ici l'or) dont il est constitué. Armand Du-Puel / Hardinvestor reproduction interdite : pas de copier / coller : utilisez un lien vers cet original. |
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Chef table à cartes
Inscription : 18/08/2005
Messages : 3541
| | | requête d'acquittement ou de nouveau procès du fondateur liberty $
par marie Mar 26 Mar 2013 - 23:20 | |
| requête d'acquittement ou de nouveau procès du fondateur liberty $ le fondateur de liberty dollar reconnu coupable de contrefaçon il ya deux ans devant un tribunal fédéral en Caroline du Nord, mais pas encore condamné, a déposé une requête aux fins d'acquittement ou un nouveau procès. - Citation :
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Still not sentenced, Liberty Dollar founder moves for acquittal or retrial
Submitted by cpowell on Tue, 2013-03-26 01:45. Section: Daily Dispatches
9:37a HKT Tuesday, March 26, 2013
Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:
Through his lawyer, Noell P. Tin of Charlotte, North Carolina, Liberty Dollar founder Bernard von NotHaus, convicted of counterfeiting two years ago in federal court in North Carolina but still not sentenced, has filed a motion for acquittal or retrial. The motion's preface puts the situation well:
"Mr. von NotHaus stands convicted of various statutorily-defined forms of counterfeiting. The irony of this is that if anything is clear from the evidence presented at trial, it is that the last thing Mr. von NotHaus wanted was for Liberty Dollars to be confused with coins issued by the United States government. That would, as witness Vernon Robinson testified, have defeated the whole purpose -- to demonstrate to citizens and communities that there is a way to engage in commerce and not use the Federal Reserve system.
"Whether writing scholarly papers on value-based currency, attracting media attention, or selling T-shirts saying 'The Fed Can Bite Me,' Mr. von NotHaus has always operated out in the open. His intention -- to protest the Federal Reserve system -- has always been plain. The jury's verdict conflates a program created to function as an alternative to the Federal Reserve system with one designed to deceive people into believing it was the very thing Mr. von NotHaus was protesting in the first place.
"Whatever one's opinion about the merit of value-based currency, the fact remains that the Liberty Dollar was not a counterfeit and was not intended to function as such. The verdict is a perversion of the counterfeiting statutes and should be set aside."
Von NotHaus' motion is posted in PDF format at GATA's Internet site here:
http://www.gata.org/files/VonNotHausRetrialMotion-03-25-2013.pdf
CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.
http://www.gata.org/node/12389 Marie Pas de copier-coller: merci de faire un lien vers ce post. Suivez Hardinvestor sur Twitter et sur Facebook |
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Skipper
Inscription : 05/02/2005
Messages : 20140
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